Maybe the problem between our two political affiliations in America has to do with something more rudimentary than a preference for one set of policies over another.
Since you mention "Have I Got News For You" -- it was even better this time around, I really enjoy it. I especially liked your point-blank question to Charlie Dent, and his (seemingly) honest answer. It was equally enjoyable during the show to see him squirm a bit at first, and maybe get too enthusiastic later ("I'm gonna hear about that"). Also, I don't think fear is the determining factor behind liberal/conservative, I think it's empathy. (Well, for MAGA it's definitely fear).
I know a lot of people scoff at the idea of Russia or Russian troll farms deliberately inflaming our internal divisions but I see it playing out in my small Michigan town and I don’t think we should underestimate its influence. We have divisions and one of our nation’s enemies is actively exploiting them and growing them to weaken us from within. A previous Russian leader said they would take us down without a shot and they have never stopped working on this goal.
Has living in the South, where conservatism is the dominant religion (I said what I said), affected your views about America’s current divisions? I ask because after moving to New England both Dana and I experienced subtle moments of culture shock related not only to the region’s caucasity - she got on the bus to go to work and was unnerved to see so many white people in one place after living in Georgia since she was 16 - but also suddenly being surrounded by people who might agree with us in the voting booth. It sounds silly to be a little discombobulated by such a thing, but what Southern progressives learn just to keep things peaceful with family, co-workers, and some friends is to always talk around politics if possible, or scramble for the small points where we *might* agree about life, the universe and all that other crap. It’s not fun, and in a way, it’s dishonest, but life constantly fighting the hardened, religion-infused views of people around you can force such coping techniques. Living here, where there are even blue collar Democrats (almost nonexistent down home), was a little head-spinning. “Y’all are so DIRECT. Stop with the vinegar, friend, honey is tastier!”
I like it now, but I’m just getting at the way living in different regions of the US can border on moving to another country altogether in the way it impacts your perceptions of others’ motivations, politics, etc.
I hadn't really thought about this very much until you raised the question, and my first instinct was to say, "No, it hasn't changed me," but I'm wondering if that's accurate. Savannah, as you probably know, is a liberal city in a red state, but there are plenty of Trump supporters and conservatives here. (Just as there were in Connecticut, by the way.) The difference, though, seems to be the peaceable way people treat each other here, perhaps because the differences are so clearly understood, not just in terms of policy, but the deeper historical divisions that once tore the whole region apart. Maybe living among that makes me a little more appreciative of what it means to be tolerant, civil, and open-hearted towards those with whom you might have profound disagreements. I will say, though, that getting a compliment on your "White Dudes for Harris" cap in the South feels pretty good.
This ties in with George Lakoff's theories, which MIB touched on in another post. Politics of fear is related to the "Strict Father" family model that is the underlying frame of the spectrum of right-wing views, and the "Nurturing Parent" family model is its polar opposite.
It's a nice sentiment, Mike. But you're advocating for a balanced level of centrism, which unfortunately, has never proven a viable strategy for this country. Just because Pax Americana didn't fall the last two hundred odd years, doesn't mean we were ever in the right space for longevity. We weren't. Conservatism needs to be weeded out, because it's based in the perpetual, Euro-Anglo, Christian, tribal class system that's been dogging colonial, imperial expansion since Germanic and Norse tribes first rose to power in the Mediterranean and Mesopotamian provinces. As you astutely noted, it's based in primordial fears, mostly "I am afraid of that which is different than me and mine," or "We want more of those peoples' stuff, so we're gonna figure out a way to take it from them." Centrism is dead. There's a right and a wrong side of history. What there isn't, is a balanced perspective of both sides. One side blatantly disregards the value of female, Black, and Brown lives, and one side does that less. That's as simple as it is, when all else is scratched away. There's no balance when it comes to the sanctity of lives. There's a singular choice, one we all must make ourselves. We're all sisters and brothers whether we believe it or not. It's up to us to decide when we want to embrace that, be it in this world or another.
It's true I'm advocating for a balanced centrism, not as a dominant political force, but as a cogent middle ground. Centrism need not produce policy, but it does need to be a common touchstone for both parties. We need to be able to feel solidity under our feet as we move in one direction or another. At the moment, most centrist voices are Democratic. I don't think that's a good thing. I would prefer that the Dems have their left wing and the Republicans have their right wing, but that there's enough overlap between the two parties that we can make constructive progress. At the moment, one half of our political system is weighted so heavily towards a bizarre amalgamation of white Christian fantasia that it's impossible to have meaningful conversations with them about policy that matters to most Americans. I'm just hoping that a rejuvenated Republican Party emerges from this morass and figures out how to govern responsibly.
I feel like you are hinting at what Heather Cox Richardson describes as liberalism (not with all the baggage of the past 40-50 years). There is no longer a shared narrative in how we generate progress for our country and as a result we all pay for it.
I don't see much evidence for a shared narrative since the Industrial Revolution, excepting expansion of empire and a few foreign policies. Short of that....one side doesn't much care about the collective, and one side cares a bit more.
Since you mention "Have I Got News For You" -- it was even better this time around, I really enjoy it. I especially liked your point-blank question to Charlie Dent, and his (seemingly) honest answer. It was equally enjoyable during the show to see him squirm a bit at first, and maybe get too enthusiastic later ("I'm gonna hear about that"). Also, I don't think fear is the determining factor behind liberal/conservative, I think it's empathy. (Well, for MAGA it's definitely fear).
I know a lot of people scoff at the idea of Russia or Russian troll farms deliberately inflaming our internal divisions but I see it playing out in my small Michigan town and I don’t think we should underestimate its influence. We have divisions and one of our nation’s enemies is actively exploiting them and growing them to weaken us from within. A previous Russian leader said they would take us down without a shot and they have never stopped working on this goal.
School vouchers destroy public schools. In theory, as you say, it could lead to good choices, but in reality, the cuts to public schools are severe in places where vouchers have been introduced. Economic Policy Institute has a bit more: https://www.epi.org/blog/state-and-local-experience-proves-school-vouchers-are-a-failed-policy-that-must-be-opposed-as-voucher-expansion-bills-gain-momentum-look-to-public-school-advocates-for-guidance/
Change is the only constant. To fight for keeping things the same is stagnation where only foulness thrives.
You’re a breath of fresh air
Has living in the South, where conservatism is the dominant religion (I said what I said), affected your views about America’s current divisions? I ask because after moving to New England both Dana and I experienced subtle moments of culture shock related not only to the region’s caucasity - she got on the bus to go to work and was unnerved to see so many white people in one place after living in Georgia since she was 16 - but also suddenly being surrounded by people who might agree with us in the voting booth. It sounds silly to be a little discombobulated by such a thing, but what Southern progressives learn just to keep things peaceful with family, co-workers, and some friends is to always talk around politics if possible, or scramble for the small points where we *might* agree about life, the universe and all that other crap. It’s not fun, and in a way, it’s dishonest, but life constantly fighting the hardened, religion-infused views of people around you can force such coping techniques. Living here, where there are even blue collar Democrats (almost nonexistent down home), was a little head-spinning. “Y’all are so DIRECT. Stop with the vinegar, friend, honey is tastier!”
I like it now, but I’m just getting at the way living in different regions of the US can border on moving to another country altogether in the way it impacts your perceptions of others’ motivations, politics, etc.
Great observation Steve. My view from a purple state in the Midwest is very similar, but just different.
I hadn't really thought about this very much until you raised the question, and my first instinct was to say, "No, it hasn't changed me," but I'm wondering if that's accurate. Savannah, as you probably know, is a liberal city in a red state, but there are plenty of Trump supporters and conservatives here. (Just as there were in Connecticut, by the way.) The difference, though, seems to be the peaceable way people treat each other here, perhaps because the differences are so clearly understood, not just in terms of policy, but the deeper historical divisions that once tore the whole region apart. Maybe living among that makes me a little more appreciative of what it means to be tolerant, civil, and open-hearted towards those with whom you might have profound disagreements. I will say, though, that getting a compliment on your "White Dudes for Harris" cap in the South feels pretty good.
This ties in with George Lakoff's theories, which MIB touched on in another post. Politics of fear is related to the "Strict Father" family model that is the underlying frame of the spectrum of right-wing views, and the "Nurturing Parent" family model is its polar opposite.
Unfortunately, social media platforms have become the antitheses of centrism. Hard to imagine that changing.
It's a nice sentiment, Mike. But you're advocating for a balanced level of centrism, which unfortunately, has never proven a viable strategy for this country. Just because Pax Americana didn't fall the last two hundred odd years, doesn't mean we were ever in the right space for longevity. We weren't. Conservatism needs to be weeded out, because it's based in the perpetual, Euro-Anglo, Christian, tribal class system that's been dogging colonial, imperial expansion since Germanic and Norse tribes first rose to power in the Mediterranean and Mesopotamian provinces. As you astutely noted, it's based in primordial fears, mostly "I am afraid of that which is different than me and mine," or "We want more of those peoples' stuff, so we're gonna figure out a way to take it from them." Centrism is dead. There's a right and a wrong side of history. What there isn't, is a balanced perspective of both sides. One side blatantly disregards the value of female, Black, and Brown lives, and one side does that less. That's as simple as it is, when all else is scratched away. There's no balance when it comes to the sanctity of lives. There's a singular choice, one we all must make ourselves. We're all sisters and brothers whether we believe it or not. It's up to us to decide when we want to embrace that, be it in this world or another.
It's true I'm advocating for a balanced centrism, not as a dominant political force, but as a cogent middle ground. Centrism need not produce policy, but it does need to be a common touchstone for both parties. We need to be able to feel solidity under our feet as we move in one direction or another. At the moment, most centrist voices are Democratic. I don't think that's a good thing. I would prefer that the Dems have their left wing and the Republicans have their right wing, but that there's enough overlap between the two parties that we can make constructive progress. At the moment, one half of our political system is weighted so heavily towards a bizarre amalgamation of white Christian fantasia that it's impossible to have meaningful conversations with them about policy that matters to most Americans. I'm just hoping that a rejuvenated Republican Party emerges from this morass and figures out how to govern responsibly.
I feel like you are hinting at what Heather Cox Richardson describes as liberalism (not with all the baggage of the past 40-50 years). There is no longer a shared narrative in how we generate progress for our country and as a result we all pay for it.
I don't see much evidence for a shared narrative since the Industrial Revolution, excepting expansion of empire and a few foreign policies. Short of that....one side doesn't much care about the collective, and one side cares a bit more.