“He is constructed of flaws…” “a pattern of immorality and criminality that ought to horrify any devout (or secular) American…” Hell-to-the-yes. The political years since Trump took office have established an alarming new low point in our expectations for ethics, decency and reasonableness in national life. The relief I feel now at having the opportunity to vote for ANY OTHER ELECTABLE CANDIDATE is almost beyond description. Having my wonderful governor Tim Walz as Harris’s running mate has now brought me back into association with the Democratic party after choosing no affiliation in the months prior to Biden dropping out.
P.S. more importantly: both of my children, who are ages 28 and 30, now have TOTALLY come on board to Harris-Walz with an enthusiasm they haven’t shown for Democratic candidates since Biden won the nomination in 2020. I believe their peer group is feeling similarly. Let’s hope it’s enough.
Your last line is chilling, but I can't say it's wrong.
Also, what strikes me is that these people claim there's this shadowy cabal controlling the information and media landscapes towards nefarious ends. They are behind the scenes, with their hands in everything, pulling the strings of markets, academia, even the weather. They are all-encompassing and nigh on inescapable.
They're also morons, which is why the feds/the government can't be trusted to do anything right and why "the market" is better equipped to handle society's ills and rationally distribute resources.
The dissonance between these two positions is head-spinning.
I love that you used a photo of the Hare Krishnas with this story. I used to ride the F train from Brooklyn to Manhattan in the 1970s and ‘80s, where Hare Krishna headquarters were located. They pestered everyone at my stop unmercifully with “spare change?” Drive many people crazy. They were drones who seemed to lack brains, operating with a kind of hive brain that was both repellant and fascinating. Much like the MAGA loonies.
Be careful. You start digging down that rabbit hole of batshit insanity, you might find yourself starting to agree with some of it.
Next thing you know, you’re on your lawn in your Trump shirt and obligatory red hat with your diaper on over your pants, screaming at your neighbors, calling them communists because they’ve got a Kamala sign in their yard.
Strange to see so many neo cons following Mike here. One has to wonder whether they’re looking for chum or whether deep down, they’re trying to find a catalyst to break their cycle of illusion.
I guess I’m surprised to hear Dreher’s acknowledgment of Trump having flaws and not being the ideal candidate. It’s disconcerting that if leaders within this movement are not satisfied, that there may be a replacement who is more menacing.
In my part of Texas, folks keep telling me how much they hate Trump but have to vote Republican and liked his policies.
There is no intelligent way to respond to this.
As you leave one blue city in Texas to travel to another (I.e. the big ones, Austin, Houston, Dallas), you pass hundreds if not thousands of Trump signs, banners, etc in rural Texas. It makes the scenery not as enjoyable.
Warning! Warning! I'm about to engage in some "Both Sides"
If we're being honest, aren't there voices on The Left (TM) who engage in, not so much conspiracy stuff, but they just assume that the Profit Motive guarantees that anyone trying to bring us facts are being manipulated by Forces Higher Up Than Them (like on the fiftieth floor, if they are reporting to an actual office building occasionally).
No, I don't have specific examples to post, but I can think of kindred spirits who will post something like "NYT REPORTER (usually not named) used a COMMA instead of a SEMI-COLON in PARAGRAPH 14 and she graduated from COLUMBIA so of course she is bought off and totally in the tank for TRUMP."
I (heart) media criticism too! But I rarely see any blogger/critic point to a -specific- article he/she had issues with and rewrite it word for word. Or, say, livestreamed CNN for six hours and commenting in real time, MST3K style. And I am guessing there would be little overlap between those who know -exactly- how to fix journalism and people who have actually owned/run a paper/made a payroll.
Tell me what you really want! And then tell me how you will get readers/viewers interested in it.
We’re far past the point of Whataboutism but thanks. The right is trying to whip up the anti trans folks and fuel division. If you doubt this is true, Google it and see what comes up. I don’t like extremism of any sort and one shitty behavior doesn’t nullify another sort of shitty behavior.
Oh you're awesome! Definitely made -me- think. We could use a more modern take on Manufacturing Consent; I'm sure that book is out there or at least is being written now.
The current thing making me incredulous is the boxing debate. Actually, is it even a debate? So much pearl clutching over a MAN BEATING A WOMAN, when by their own definition, the "man" is a woman. Born female, all female factory issued parts, heterosexual, not trying to be male. They are trying to make it an anti-trans issue when she's not trans.
This was a really interesting read, it's always enlightening to read stuff you disagree with in an open-minded way and wrestle with it - well done, I wish more writers would do this. Idk if Dreher is a "leader" in Trump world, he has excoriated Trump and been smeared by the more Trumpy wings of the party. He's coming from a very religious conservative place, but there are whole swaths of Trump world who are weird post-religion Nietzscheans obsessed with "vitality". It's a big weird world.
Re: your final point, yeah, it's religion all the way down. Most of the common cultural referents that allowed us spaces free from religious thinking have been demolished, and now the religious mode of thought has taken over in large swaths of the political world. And it's not likely to get any less weird! As we continue to slide into a digital oral culture where reading and writing are no longer the prestige way to communicate ideas and connect the past to the present, it's just going to get weirder and weirder.
One thing Dreher is right about is how the world is searching for re-enchantment, for a glimpse at the magical and supernatural, but without the guidance of history to help them figure out how to do it. I predict lots of new religions and lots of new social movements that aren't explicitly about worshipping a deity but have all the characteristics of a religious movement.
I'm new to Dreher, so I don't have the same familiarity with his worldview as you. So thanks for illuminating is a bit more brightly. And I agree with your agreement with Dreher's point about the world seeking "re-enchantment." It's a beautiful word and a profound human need. The idea that Trump should be the source of this re-enchantment for so many is distressing, but I also understand how people who have lost hope would grip any flotsam drifting their way.
I'm 39 and have been working in Republican or Republican-adjacent politics for the past 18 years or so, but I try to read widely and talk to lots of different kinds of people to avoid becoming a moron 😂
It is disturbing that people are captivated by Trump's shallow show biz persona - I think a lot of conservatives felt the same way about Obama and the way his fans treated him, but immediately forgot that they thought it was weird when their opponents were doing it.
I do think that the right wing media ecosystem catches some things that the mainstream misses - e.g. right wing weirdos were right about the COVID lab leak hypothesis, the validity of Hunter Biden's laptop, and more recently that Biden would drop out of the race. Part of that is that the right wing media ecosystem is a million monkeys with typewriters and they are going to be right sometimes, part of it is the very distrust of mainstream institutions that makes them so annoying to mainstream people. But it weaves those items into a much larger tapestry of half-truths and outright lies.
"It is disturbing that people are captivated by Trump's shallow show biz persona - I think a lot of conservatives felt the same way about Obama and the way his fans treated him, but immediately forgot that they thought it was weird then their opponents were doing it."
I'm likely pretty close to polar opposite politically from you, but we agree on this. I was really uncomfortable with the hero-worshiping around Obama...I kinda thought he was okay at best but I had a hard time expressing that without getting...let's say "spirited" pushback.
They did it with Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden as well. If you critique their favored candidate on any basis, even including meat-and-potatoes policy stuff, suddenly you're all in on trump winning. It's maddening.
What I don't understand are the people who enthusiastically support his insane trade and economic policies - he seems to be able to make thinkers with a lifelong commitment to free and open markets just say "nah, nevermind."
I have to ask… so you’re OK with his criminality, his lies, his open distain for our democratic processes, his admiration of autocrats, his racist and misogynistic tendencies?
i like this a lot: "Calling Trump 'an admittedly flawed candidate' is a bit like saying the Titanic had, admitetedly, some design issues. Those 'flaws' of Trump’s are not a few whimsical quirks that happen to burble up now and again. He is constructed of flaws, as if “Oops, All Berries” breakfast cereal were a person. It’s a pattern of immorality and criminality that ought to horrify any devout (or secular) American, but which the devout are content to overlook because of Trump’s utility as a blunt instrument of Christian nationalism."
Yup, this. It's amazing to me that the standard for credible sources seems to be "different from the [liberally biased] mainstream media," as if shit that confirms and bolsters right wing sensibilities can't also be outright fabrications.
“He is constructed of flaws…” “a pattern of immorality and criminality that ought to horrify any devout (or secular) American…” Hell-to-the-yes. The political years since Trump took office have established an alarming new low point in our expectations for ethics, decency and reasonableness in national life. The relief I feel now at having the opportunity to vote for ANY OTHER ELECTABLE CANDIDATE is almost beyond description. Having my wonderful governor Tim Walz as Harris’s running mate has now brought me back into association with the Democratic party after choosing no affiliation in the months prior to Biden dropping out.
P.S. more importantly: both of my children, who are ages 28 and 30, now have TOTALLY come on board to Harris-Walz with an enthusiasm they haven’t shown for Democratic candidates since Biden won the nomination in 2020. I believe their peer group is feeling similarly. Let’s hope it’s enough.
have taken a moment to Subscribe .. despite whatever it is about YOU re Alex Jones that I don’t ’get .. mebbe you’ll explain or maybe not.. 🦎🏴☠️🇨🇦
Your last line is chilling, but I can't say it's wrong.
Also, what strikes me is that these people claim there's this shadowy cabal controlling the information and media landscapes towards nefarious ends. They are behind the scenes, with their hands in everything, pulling the strings of markets, academia, even the weather. They are all-encompassing and nigh on inescapable.
They're also morons, which is why the feds/the government can't be trusted to do anything right and why "the market" is better equipped to handle society's ills and rationally distribute resources.
The dissonance between these two positions is head-spinning.
I love that you used a photo of the Hare Krishnas with this story. I used to ride the F train from Brooklyn to Manhattan in the 1970s and ‘80s, where Hare Krishna headquarters were located. They pestered everyone at my stop unmercifully with “spare change?” Drive many people crazy. They were drones who seemed to lack brains, operating with a kind of hive brain that was both repellant and fascinating. Much like the MAGA loonies.
good article, but Alex Jones? and David Sachs?
Be careful. You start digging down that rabbit hole of batshit insanity, you might find yourself starting to agree with some of it.
Next thing you know, you’re on your lawn in your Trump shirt and obligatory red hat with your diaper on over your pants, screaming at your neighbors, calling them communists because they’ve got a Kamala sign in their yard.
It’s how these nincompoops get infected. 😂
You left out the ear bandage.
Every accusation (by the conservatives) is a confession.
Read their words as such
If my recollection of history is accurate, I believe that some leaders of that religious denomination backed Hitler. Some things never change.
Strange to see so many neo cons following Mike here. One has to wonder whether they’re looking for chum or whether deep down, they’re trying to find a catalyst to break their cycle of illusion.
I guess I’m surprised to hear Dreher’s acknowledgment of Trump having flaws and not being the ideal candidate. It’s disconcerting that if leaders within this movement are not satisfied, that there may be a replacement who is more menacing.
Vance?
Ewe
In my part of Texas, folks keep telling me how much they hate Trump but have to vote Republican and liked his policies.
There is no intelligent way to respond to this.
As you leave one blue city in Texas to travel to another (I.e. the big ones, Austin, Houston, Dallas), you pass hundreds if not thousands of Trump signs, banners, etc in rural Texas. It makes the scenery not as enjoyable.
Yeah...my litmus test during his administration was whenever someone would bring up "the Trump Economy" — I would instantly stop listening.
Exactly! That’s a great test!
Warning! Warning! I'm about to engage in some "Both Sides"
If we're being honest, aren't there voices on The Left (TM) who engage in, not so much conspiracy stuff, but they just assume that the Profit Motive guarantees that anyone trying to bring us facts are being manipulated by Forces Higher Up Than Them (like on the fiftieth floor, if they are reporting to an actual office building occasionally).
No, I don't have specific examples to post, but I can think of kindred spirits who will post something like "NYT REPORTER (usually not named) used a COMMA instead of a SEMI-COLON in PARAGRAPH 14 and she graduated from COLUMBIA so of course she is bought off and totally in the tank for TRUMP."
I (heart) media criticism too! But I rarely see any blogger/critic point to a -specific- article he/she had issues with and rewrite it word for word. Or, say, livestreamed CNN for six hours and commenting in real time, MST3K style. And I am guessing there would be little overlap between those who know -exactly- how to fix journalism and people who have actually owned/run a paper/made a payroll.
Tell me what you really want! And then tell me how you will get readers/viewers interested in it.
We’re far past the point of Whataboutism but thanks. The right is trying to whip up the anti trans folks and fuel division. If you doubt this is true, Google it and see what comes up. I don’t like extremism of any sort and one shitty behavior doesn’t nullify another sort of shitty behavior.
i wuz already ‘thinking - myself..
its the ‘how & why’ am typing this comment 🦎🏴☠️🇨🇦
Oh you're awesome! Definitely made -me- think. We could use a more modern take on Manufacturing Consent; I'm sure that book is out there or at least is being written now.
The current thing making me incredulous is the boxing debate. Actually, is it even a debate? So much pearl clutching over a MAN BEATING A WOMAN, when by their own definition, the "man" is a woman. Born female, all female factory issued parts, heterosexual, not trying to be male. They are trying to make it an anti-trans issue when she's not trans.
You are applying logic. They are applying something else.
This was a really interesting read, it's always enlightening to read stuff you disagree with in an open-minded way and wrestle with it - well done, I wish more writers would do this. Idk if Dreher is a "leader" in Trump world, he has excoriated Trump and been smeared by the more Trumpy wings of the party. He's coming from a very religious conservative place, but there are whole swaths of Trump world who are weird post-religion Nietzscheans obsessed with "vitality". It's a big weird world.
Re: your final point, yeah, it's religion all the way down. Most of the common cultural referents that allowed us spaces free from religious thinking have been demolished, and now the religious mode of thought has taken over in large swaths of the political world. And it's not likely to get any less weird! As we continue to slide into a digital oral culture where reading and writing are no longer the prestige way to communicate ideas and connect the past to the present, it's just going to get weirder and weirder.
One thing Dreher is right about is how the world is searching for re-enchantment, for a glimpse at the magical and supernatural, but without the guidance of history to help them figure out how to do it. I predict lots of new religions and lots of new social movements that aren't explicitly about worshipping a deity but have all the characteristics of a religious movement.
I'm new to Dreher, so I don't have the same familiarity with his worldview as you. So thanks for illuminating is a bit more brightly. And I agree with your agreement with Dreher's point about the world seeking "re-enchantment." It's a beautiful word and a profound human need. The idea that Trump should be the source of this re-enchantment for so many is distressing, but I also understand how people who have lost hope would grip any flotsam drifting their way.
I'm 39 and have been working in Republican or Republican-adjacent politics for the past 18 years or so, but I try to read widely and talk to lots of different kinds of people to avoid becoming a moron 😂
It is disturbing that people are captivated by Trump's shallow show biz persona - I think a lot of conservatives felt the same way about Obama and the way his fans treated him, but immediately forgot that they thought it was weird when their opponents were doing it.
I do think that the right wing media ecosystem catches some things that the mainstream misses - e.g. right wing weirdos were right about the COVID lab leak hypothesis, the validity of Hunter Biden's laptop, and more recently that Biden would drop out of the race. Part of that is that the right wing media ecosystem is a million monkeys with typewriters and they are going to be right sometimes, part of it is the very distrust of mainstream institutions that makes them so annoying to mainstream people. But it weaves those items into a much larger tapestry of half-truths and outright lies.
"It is disturbing that people are captivated by Trump's shallow show biz persona - I think a lot of conservatives felt the same way about Obama and the way his fans treated him, but immediately forgot that they thought it was weird then their opponents were doing it."
I'm likely pretty close to polar opposite politically from you, but we agree on this. I was really uncomfortable with the hero-worshiping around Obama...I kinda thought he was okay at best but I had a hard time expressing that without getting...let's say "spirited" pushback.
They did it with Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden as well. If you critique their favored candidate on any basis, even including meat-and-potatoes policy stuff, suddenly you're all in on trump winning. It's maddening.
May I ask if you, as a longtime Republican, are a Trump supporter? Would you vote for him vs. Harris? Not looking for a pissing match… Just curious.
I'm not a trump supporter but I understand those who see him a lesser evil and will hold their nose and vote for him.
What I don't understand are the people who enthusiastically support his insane trade and economic policies - he seems to be able to make thinkers with a lifelong commitment to free and open markets just say "nah, nevermind."
I have to ask… so you’re OK with his criminality, his lies, his open distain for our democratic processes, his admiration of autocrats, his racist and misogynistic tendencies?
dear michael,
another super thoughtful piece, thank you!
i like this a lot: "Calling Trump 'an admittedly flawed candidate' is a bit like saying the Titanic had, admitetedly, some design issues. Those 'flaws' of Trump’s are not a few whimsical quirks that happen to burble up now and again. He is constructed of flaws, as if “Oops, All Berries” breakfast cereal were a person. It’s a pattern of immorality and criminality that ought to horrify any devout (or secular) American, but which the devout are content to overlook because of Trump’s utility as a blunt instrument of Christian nationalism."
thanks for sharing as always!
much love
myq
.. amen 🦎🏴☠️🇨🇦
Yup, this. It's amazing to me that the standard for credible sources seems to be "different from the [liberally biased] mainstream media," as if shit that confirms and bolsters right wing sensibilities can't also be outright fabrications.