What guys who lean into the "Damn Cancel Culture" thing don't really seem to learn is, the kind of audience that spiel attracts is not a forgiving one in its own way. They sorta believe that, in exchange for their support for you against their boogeyman "woke mob", you work for them now. Your job is to reflect their opinions back to them, or move them farther the way they're already going, and you'd better not step out of line doing it.
They're as intolerant of having their own views challenged as they are of people whose perspectives are different from theirs, and will turn viciously upon any "betrayal" real or imagined, and they'll exile you faster and harder than the libs they project upon ever would
They pretend to be mad about "censorship", but relish playing censor of those they think they "own".
That's why I think the "Rich Men North of Richmond" guy bailed out so quick: he knew where that path was gonna land him.
I sometimes try and explain offensive humour like this.
I’m Scottish, I’ve heard jokes about scots, my accent, our history all my life, some funny, many groan inducing and , now and then some that are offensive, that when told I get that little flush of heat and want to punch the teller of the joke in the face but I don’t, the anger dissipates quickly and I just mentally think asshole and move on with my life.
I’ve also learnt over the years to just suck it up, they are “ only jokes”.
The thing is I don’t know if the joke is going to be funny, boring, groan inducing or out and out offensive until I hear it, if I don’t know then whoever tells me the joke doesn’t know if it’s going to offend me either but is going to tell me even if it means offending me, why?
this is an excellent piece. this point about carlin is fantastic:
"Notice Carlin didn’t include any racial and ethnic slurs in his list despite the fact that he wasn’t able to say those words on television, either. Why didn’t he include them? Because he understood that the strictures against those words broadcast to a general audience serve a legitimate purpose, while facing incarceration for saying the word 'motherfucker' does not."
You know what was funny? The sketch about wrapping your cheese so it wouldn't dry out. It's impossible to find and hard to explain but it cracks me up every single time I remember it.
Most of these guys just plain aren't clever or funny, either. This becomes obvious anytime they engage a "woke" comedian in any way - they usually can't hang.
Thank you for this. It is very possible to be funny without resorting to punching down. It just takes a little more work. Thank you for being someone willing to do that. 😊
Our humanity is flawed…. Can we agree on that? And yes, we get to JUDGE/SUPPORT/REJECT what our eyes and ears tell us. If you DO use your critical thinking skills, then you assess your response.
Bill Clinton took extreme advantage of a young woman intern in his orbit (as many others have done). What are your thoughts of him as a man/president/husband/father?
I think we're saying the same thing, that being "offended" is very much in the eye of the person taking offense, not the person attempting to offend. For example, if somebody calls me a kike, as often happens online, I can respond in any number of ways. I can take offense, not take offense, attempt some kind of retribution or not, attempt to have the person punished or not. I can ignore them completely. But I also understand that the person's intent is to hurt me; am I giving them what they want by taking offense or am I making the problem worse, in some respect, by ignoring them? It's a judgment call. Yes, the best comedy points out the absurd, but injecting purposeful offense isn't generally pointing out absurdity or making any sort of social criticism or making a statement about anything other than one's own biases and prejudices. The idea of "canceling" somebody is obviously a myth. The comics who have been allegedly canceled have all continued to work regularly, even Chris D'Elia who groomed and abused girls, and attempted to start a sex cult is still out there doing his thing. There's almost nothing you can do to get yourself good and properly canceled. Unless you're Matt Lauer or Bill Cosby. Those guys are done.
You know why those comics have not suffered a cancellation? Bc most folks believe their eyes and ears. MANY people have lost jobs/friends/reputation simply by expressing a different opinion.
Can you name a comic who has been canceled for "expressing a different opinion"? Or an actor? The best example I can think of are the Dixie Chicks, when they were in London and criticized George W. Bush. That moment cost them their popularity with their conservative-leaning audience. Country music stations refused to play their music, etc. To their credit, they stayed together and eventually rebounded somewhat, but never again reached the heights they once held. With comics, though, it's almost the opposite. The more iconoclastic you are, the more likely you are to find an audience.
My very dear late friend and comedian, Bill Hicks, would agree 100% with you, as do I. Keep on keeping on and never mind the keyboard commandos. I renewed today! 1 more year of reason and commiseration.
Met him when he was doing routines around 1981 at Houston’s comedy workshop. He was in high school we were older and the crew running the CW then would get him home if he was inebriated. I often took him home. We became friends for the next 13 years.
He’d come see the bands I was drumming with. We both dated the same gal at different times and then all became plutonic drinking buddies. One night in 1990, we entered one of our live music haunts and one of the gal’s highly drunken exes broke off a beer bottle and started coming at me saying he was gonna kill me. Dude was so drunk it was almost laughable. Before I could react, Bill’s right hook knocked the guy 6’ airborne. Bill then lit a cig, grabbed semi-conscious dude by his foot and was shit talking him as he drug him out of the club. You gotta love a guy like that. I have many Bill stories. Mostly sad.
Sorry for your loss but thanks for sharing that story. When I first came to NYC for NYU, I went uptown to a comedy club and he performed. I'd never heard of him, but he was unforgettable.
He was a very good man and friend, despite many media portrayals. Very loyal. Loyal as a dog. RIP Bill. And hey, how many folks can say Bill Hicks saved their life?
Michael, you would have fit right in our group of artists, musicians, comedians, actors and the like that Bill ran with in Houston, if you’d been 10 years older in the 1980s. We had good times.
Louis CK didn’t just do creepy things but used his position in the business to hurt those women who complained about his behavior. Jen Kirkland has documented this. Tig got out of business with him.
I am so tired of people claiming everything is “woke” or “cancelled.”
Here is a more accurate explanation - I enjoyed your comedy/sporting prowess/whatever. Then i found out you said or did some really shitty stuff, so now I don’t like you. I haven’t *cancelled* you but i’m no longer interested in buying your albums or tickets to your shows.
It's not canceling, its accountability for ones actions, which has always existed for everyone but the rich. These people just want to be horrible to everyone with zero consequences, which is the mentality of a child.
What guys who lean into the "Damn Cancel Culture" thing don't really seem to learn is, the kind of audience that spiel attracts is not a forgiving one in its own way. They sorta believe that, in exchange for their support for you against their boogeyman "woke mob", you work for them now. Your job is to reflect their opinions back to them, or move them farther the way they're already going, and you'd better not step out of line doing it.
They're as intolerant of having their own views challenged as they are of people whose perspectives are different from theirs, and will turn viciously upon any "betrayal" real or imagined, and they'll exile you faster and harder than the libs they project upon ever would
They pretend to be mad about "censorship", but relish playing censor of those they think they "own".
That's why I think the "Rich Men North of Richmond" guy bailed out so quick: he knew where that path was gonna land him.
I think you're exactly right.
I sometimes try and explain offensive humour like this.
I’m Scottish, I’ve heard jokes about scots, my accent, our history all my life, some funny, many groan inducing and , now and then some that are offensive, that when told I get that little flush of heat and want to punch the teller of the joke in the face but I don’t, the anger dissipates quickly and I just mentally think asshole and move on with my life.
I’ve also learnt over the years to just suck it up, they are “ only jokes”.
The thing is I don’t know if the joke is going to be funny, boring, groan inducing or out and out offensive until I hear it, if I don’t know then whoever tells me the joke doesn’t know if it’s going to offend me either but is going to tell me even if it means offending me, why?
Those two clowns shaming people?? On their best day with the sun shining and the streets devoid of trash they are still hacks. What muppets.
Nah, Fozzie Bear would never subject us to an "I've been cancelled" spiel. The Muppets were real professionals that way.
Muppet in the British sense..not the puppets
dear michael,
this is an excellent piece. this point about carlin is fantastic:
"Notice Carlin didn’t include any racial and ethnic slurs in his list despite the fact that he wasn’t able to say those words on television, either. Why didn’t he include them? Because he understood that the strictures against those words broadcast to a general audience serve a legitimate purpose, while facing incarceration for saying the word 'motherfucker' does not."
thank you for sharing!
much love,
myq
You know what was funny? The sketch about wrapping your cheese so it wouldn't dry out. It's impossible to find and hard to explain but it cracks me up every single time I remember it.
Most of these guys just plain aren't clever or funny, either. This becomes obvious anytime they engage a "woke" comedian in any way - they usually can't hang.
Thank you for this. It is very possible to be funny without resorting to punching down. It just takes a little more work. Thank you for being someone willing to do that. 😊
I love a cheap joke!
“because those at whom the slur is intended are the people least able to defend themselves from attack.”
My thoughts exactly!
But he remains one of the most powerful/popular people in the Democratic Party.
No one cancelled him and NO ONE in the party pressured him to resign.
Ok, let’s do some critical thinking folks.
Our humanity is flawed…. Can we agree on that? And yes, we get to JUDGE/SUPPORT/REJECT what our eyes and ears tell us. If you DO use your critical thinking skills, then you assess your response.
Bill Clinton took extreme advantage of a young woman intern in his orbit (as many others have done). What are your thoughts of him as a man/president/husband/father?
I’ll wait.
He should have done the honorable thing and resigned.
Agreed. I did not have sex with that woman. Oh yes you did!
Oh those damn rich people! Eeegh! FUCK THEM!!
I think you’re right and wrong. The best comedy is pointing out the absurd, even if it does offend (you call it bullying, but I do not).
We have become a nation of victims, even when we are being completely absurd and some “awful person” points it out. Then they MUST be cancelled!
I think we're saying the same thing, that being "offended" is very much in the eye of the person taking offense, not the person attempting to offend. For example, if somebody calls me a kike, as often happens online, I can respond in any number of ways. I can take offense, not take offense, attempt some kind of retribution or not, attempt to have the person punished or not. I can ignore them completely. But I also understand that the person's intent is to hurt me; am I giving them what they want by taking offense or am I making the problem worse, in some respect, by ignoring them? It's a judgment call. Yes, the best comedy points out the absurd, but injecting purposeful offense isn't generally pointing out absurdity or making any sort of social criticism or making a statement about anything other than one's own biases and prejudices. The idea of "canceling" somebody is obviously a myth. The comics who have been allegedly canceled have all continued to work regularly, even Chris D'Elia who groomed and abused girls, and attempted to start a sex cult is still out there doing his thing. There's almost nothing you can do to get yourself good and properly canceled. Unless you're Matt Lauer or Bill Cosby. Those guys are done.
You know why those comics have not suffered a cancellation? Bc most folks believe their eyes and ears. MANY people have lost jobs/friends/reputation simply by expressing a different opinion.
Can you name a comic who has been canceled for "expressing a different opinion"? Or an actor? The best example I can think of are the Dixie Chicks, when they were in London and criticized George W. Bush. That moment cost them their popularity with their conservative-leaning audience. Country music stations refused to play their music, etc. To their credit, they stayed together and eventually rebounded somewhat, but never again reached the heights they once held. With comics, though, it's almost the opposite. The more iconoclastic you are, the more likely you are to find an audience.
My very dear late friend and comedian, Bill Hicks, would agree 100% with you, as do I. Keep on keeping on and never mind the keyboard commandos. I renewed today! 1 more year of reason and commiseration.
I thank you! How did you know Bill?
Met him when he was doing routines around 1981 at Houston’s comedy workshop. He was in high school we were older and the crew running the CW then would get him home if he was inebriated. I often took him home. We became friends for the next 13 years.
He’d come see the bands I was drumming with. We both dated the same gal at different times and then all became plutonic drinking buddies. One night in 1990, we entered one of our live music haunts and one of the gal’s highly drunken exes broke off a beer bottle and started coming at me saying he was gonna kill me. Dude was so drunk it was almost laughable. Before I could react, Bill’s right hook knocked the guy 6’ airborne. Bill then lit a cig, grabbed semi-conscious dude by his foot and was shit talking him as he drug him out of the club. You gotta love a guy like that. I have many Bill stories. Mostly sad.
I have missed him terribly for 30 years.
Sorry for your loss but thanks for sharing that story. When I first came to NYC for NYU, I went uptown to a comedy club and he performed. I'd never heard of him, but he was unforgettable.
He was a very good man and friend, despite many media portrayals. Very loyal. Loyal as a dog. RIP Bill. And hey, how many folks can say Bill Hicks saved their life?
Michael, you would have fit right in our group of artists, musicians, comedians, actors and the like that Bill ran with in Houston, if you’d been 10 years older in the 1980s. We had good times.
Btw, Johnny Blue Jeans on Viva Variety was terrific! Loved that show and you were terrific.
Louis CK didn’t just do creepy things but used his position in the business to hurt those women who complained about his behavior. Jen Kirkland has documented this. Tig got out of business with him.
Didn't Jen Kirkman get cancelled herself because she dared to speak up about what Louis CK did to her?
Yes, she did, unfortunately
I am so tired of people claiming everything is “woke” or “cancelled.”
Here is a more accurate explanation - I enjoyed your comedy/sporting prowess/whatever. Then i found out you said or did some really shitty stuff, so now I don’t like you. I haven’t *cancelled* you but i’m no longer interested in buying your albums or tickets to your shows.
It's not canceling, its accountability for ones actions, which has always existed for everyone but the rich. These people just want to be horrible to everyone with zero consequences, which is the mentality of a child.
Yeah, pretty much. Isn't that the way these things go?