I’m betting nearly every single person was hurt as a child by name calling at best or outright bullying at worst. For a multitude of reasons kids can be very cruel. And if other kids laugh at the cruel behavior, it just reinforces its social value. But even the bullies (most likely, especially them) have been victims at some point. Those who learn and grow realize how the karmic wheel spins and develop compassion and empathy for the outcasts, misfits, downtrodden etc. Those who don’t learn or develop maturity continue to punch down and hide behind excuses like “It’s just a joke,” “Grow a pair,” or “Lighten up, snowflake.” The greatest comedians (George Carlin is my prime example) always punch up, never down. The Rogans and Hinchcliffes of the world mostly punch down and will be ultimately be forgotten. Nobody even thinks about Rush Limbaugh anymore and he was the king of his realm for ages. Rogan may be top dog now but the world won’t miss him when he’s gone the way Carlin is missed every single day, especially in dark times like these.
Your point about the poison permission that this punching down brand of “comedy” gives to its audience is SPOT ON. That is the truly damaging part of it all. Much like the MAGA movement isn’t really about tRump at all now, it’s entirely about the people who have fully embraced the cruelty and meanness of the brand and feel empowered in spreading its hateful rhetoric throughout every sphere of American life.
I recently came across a meme which offered a much-needed phrase: Schrödinger' douchebag. It was defined as "a person who makes offensive or inflammatory remarks and characterizes these statements as either sincere or joking based on the reactions of others."
Freedom to say anything doesn’t remove your personal responsibility towards society. Joe et al have created a level of influence in everyday discourse whether they like it or not. What they do with that influence will shape how people interact with each other for a generation. With that in mind they need to recognise that society isn’t like the green room of a comedy club….
Tired of people who think they can just rehash old bits from Mel Brooks movies, Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphy routines and call it cutting edge comedy. It was edgy and cool when they did it, or at least as edgy and cool as it ever got, but it’s just old and tired now. Racism? Dude, that’s so 19th Century.
I imagine 2015 is the arbitrary date this person mentions because in 2016 they graduated high school and found out people don’t think it’s funny when you say “retard” and make dumb hand movements. Unless you’re Donald Trump, in which case you become president for mocking a disabled writer. God I remember that happening and thinking “that’s it, right? That’s the end of that!” Nope. If only!
You have touched close to a point here I have seen missed by a LOT of very smart people, comedians, who are sincerely trying to "get it". And it is the one about granting license. The "Just telling jokes" thing.
I am a trans woman. I am 65. All my life in this society has been a constant drum beat of how bad a person I am for being who and what I am.
How wrong, perverse, sick, ridiculous, insane, dangerous I am. A laughing stock to the extent that some cis guy who looked like I did...like my body did through no agency or desire of my own...merely aping the movements of a woman was a subject of hilarity and disapproval. Let alone actually donning clothing or such or God forbid, actually telling someone you're not sure "boy" or "man" fits you and girl or woman makes a ton more sense. That shit gets shut down pretty quick.
Every conversation with a joke about effeminate men. Every comedy routine. Every movie with a serial killer. Through the years. Everywhere. Silence of the Lambs winning an Oscar. Ace Ventura. On and on.
All these things day after day. Teaching people these lessons. Making it ok. Everyone you know taking them in and repeating them. For years and decades. How horrible you are. How...funny.
And it seeps in. You take it onboard. And you hate yourself. Shame. Guilt. Fear. All day every day.
It's honestly a wonder ANY of us survive and DON'T kill ourselves, let alone survive as functioning, compassionate, somewhere close to normal adults. Yet somehow we do. Tough road we walk, us snowflakes.
The steady rain of tiny rocks. Pebbles. Today we call them micro-aggressions. Any one of them you could shrug off. We do. All the time. But every day, multiple times a day for years and decades...falling on your shoulders and pressing you down until each new one is a struggle to lift yourself off the ground under that mountain of pebbles to crawl forward another inch. Again.
Could YOU handle that?
Those are your jokes. They are part of that rain of pebbles. Individually no big deal, collectively, a mountain. Don't tell me jokes don't matter. People repeat that shit. From you, from everyone else.
Don't tell me until you are the only one making them and a thousand of your fellows call you out on it every single fucking time and make you feel like shit every fucking single day.
Oh. Wait. That happened to YOU? You got called out on Twitter and thousands of people jumped down your throat and made you feel like a terrible person and it was traumatic and unfair cuz you were just being you...a comedian telling an innocent joke. Pitiful mistreated canceled you. Career shot. Reputation ruined.
Welcome to a hint of the daily trauma of the first five decades of my life.
Maybe...try to be the person who lifts a pebble from the pile instead, hmm? You never know what shoulders they are landing on. Someone you know. Someone you love.
This is a great note, and I think I’m about to cry. My daughter is a young trans woman and while we are 100% supportive and all in, this really made clear what she goes through and we don’t know about… Thank you.
I'm seeing a fair amount of pundits pushing the narrative that Tony and the MSG rally have harmed trump's election chances, so if MAGA is unsuccessful in their attempt to steal the election, assuming by all that is good in the world they don't win outright and this narrative somehow seeps into their godawful information bubble, I don't imagine Tony coming out of this as a hero.
Nice essay! My husband and I love vinyl and have started seeking out old comedy records. So fun. Cheech and Chong are a blast. Carlin is the best so far---but we are still discovering. We're hoping to come across some old Redd Foxx because I hear the party albums are irreverent and raunchy and great. It is fine for comedy to evolve though. I cringe at the jokes I used to tell as a teen in the 80s (lots of gay/Aids jokes, some n-word punchlines, misogyny--because I used to be unbothered about degrading other women). I still love to laugh and am fortunate to have a hilarious husband, but I am relieved that I am a more aware (proudly woke) person now.
Wait until you listen to the album by Bill Cosby where he talks about Spanish Fly. In retrospect it's really chilling to hear him admitting to drugging women to get sex like it's H-I-larious.
"What I have, instead, is a clear conscience about how I practice my craft" that and the fact that you have empathy is part of what makes me look forward to reading your work.
I always go back to the Eddie Izzard Dress to Kill special joke about ORIGINAL sin, creating your own fucked up weirdness instead of relying on someone else’s old faithfuls (Eddie ov corpse not being a hate-filled arse).
I share strongly share these sentiments and while I don't listen to Rogan's show or Tony's, I've always understood when comic is clearly part of the Broniverse. I'm happy to say that their thing isn't my thing. As a comedian, as a writer or creator - wouldn't you want to be better?
It's kind of simple, really:
Punching up? Funny. Punching down? Not funny.
One of the jobs of the comic is to speak truth to power. These hacks speak soothing words to their overlords.
I’m betting nearly every single person was hurt as a child by name calling at best or outright bullying at worst. For a multitude of reasons kids can be very cruel. And if other kids laugh at the cruel behavior, it just reinforces its social value. But even the bullies (most likely, especially them) have been victims at some point. Those who learn and grow realize how the karmic wheel spins and develop compassion and empathy for the outcasts, misfits, downtrodden etc. Those who don’t learn or develop maturity continue to punch down and hide behind excuses like “It’s just a joke,” “Grow a pair,” or “Lighten up, snowflake.” The greatest comedians (George Carlin is my prime example) always punch up, never down. The Rogans and Hinchcliffes of the world mostly punch down and will be ultimately be forgotten. Nobody even thinks about Rush Limbaugh anymore and he was the king of his realm for ages. Rogan may be top dog now but the world won’t miss him when he’s gone the way Carlin is missed every single day, especially in dark times like these.
Your point about the poison permission that this punching down brand of “comedy” gives to its audience is SPOT ON. That is the truly damaging part of it all. Much like the MAGA movement isn’t really about tRump at all now, it’s entirely about the people who have fully embraced the cruelty and meanness of the brand and feel empowered in spreading its hateful rhetoric throughout every sphere of American life.
I recently came across a meme which offered a much-needed phrase: Schrödinger' douchebag. It was defined as "a person who makes offensive or inflammatory remarks and characterizes these statements as either sincere or joking based on the reactions of others."
The Hollow Man: Trump’s Sad Little Masquerade of Manhood
Behind the bluster and red hats lies a brittle brand of masculinity—a hollow charade that cloaks cowardice, denial, and failure.
https://substack.com/home/post/p-151038838?r=4d7sow&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Freedom to say anything doesn’t remove your personal responsibility towards society. Joe et al have created a level of influence in everyday discourse whether they like it or not. What they do with that influence will shape how people interact with each other for a generation. With that in mind they need to recognise that society isn’t like the green room of a comedy club….
I enjoyed your writing. Thank you.
Tired of people who think they can just rehash old bits from Mel Brooks movies, Richard Pryor or Eddie Murphy routines and call it cutting edge comedy. It was edgy and cool when they did it, or at least as edgy and cool as it ever got, but it’s just old and tired now. Racism? Dude, that’s so 19th Century.
I imagine 2015 is the arbitrary date this person mentions because in 2016 they graduated high school and found out people don’t think it’s funny when you say “retard” and make dumb hand movements. Unless you’re Donald Trump, in which case you become president for mocking a disabled writer. God I remember that happening and thinking “that’s it, right? That’s the end of that!” Nope. If only!
You have touched close to a point here I have seen missed by a LOT of very smart people, comedians, who are sincerely trying to "get it". And it is the one about granting license. The "Just telling jokes" thing.
I am a trans woman. I am 65. All my life in this society has been a constant drum beat of how bad a person I am for being who and what I am.
How wrong, perverse, sick, ridiculous, insane, dangerous I am. A laughing stock to the extent that some cis guy who looked like I did...like my body did through no agency or desire of my own...merely aping the movements of a woman was a subject of hilarity and disapproval. Let alone actually donning clothing or such or God forbid, actually telling someone you're not sure "boy" or "man" fits you and girl or woman makes a ton more sense. That shit gets shut down pretty quick.
Every conversation with a joke about effeminate men. Every comedy routine. Every movie with a serial killer. Through the years. Everywhere. Silence of the Lambs winning an Oscar. Ace Ventura. On and on.
All these things day after day. Teaching people these lessons. Making it ok. Everyone you know taking them in and repeating them. For years and decades. How horrible you are. How...funny.
And it seeps in. You take it onboard. And you hate yourself. Shame. Guilt. Fear. All day every day.
It's honestly a wonder ANY of us survive and DON'T kill ourselves, let alone survive as functioning, compassionate, somewhere close to normal adults. Yet somehow we do. Tough road we walk, us snowflakes.
The steady rain of tiny rocks. Pebbles. Today we call them micro-aggressions. Any one of them you could shrug off. We do. All the time. But every day, multiple times a day for years and decades...falling on your shoulders and pressing you down until each new one is a struggle to lift yourself off the ground under that mountain of pebbles to crawl forward another inch. Again.
Could YOU handle that?
Those are your jokes. They are part of that rain of pebbles. Individually no big deal, collectively, a mountain. Don't tell me jokes don't matter. People repeat that shit. From you, from everyone else.
Don't tell me until you are the only one making them and a thousand of your fellows call you out on it every single fucking time and make you feel like shit every fucking single day.
Oh. Wait. That happened to YOU? You got called out on Twitter and thousands of people jumped down your throat and made you feel like a terrible person and it was traumatic and unfair cuz you were just being you...a comedian telling an innocent joke. Pitiful mistreated canceled you. Career shot. Reputation ruined.
Welcome to a hint of the daily trauma of the first five decades of my life.
Maybe...try to be the person who lifts a pebble from the pile instead, hmm? You never know what shoulders they are landing on. Someone you know. Someone you love.
Someone listening.
This is a great note, and I think I’m about to cry. My daughter is a young trans woman and while we are 100% supportive and all in, this really made clear what she goes through and we don’t know about… Thank you.
Wow. That was really powerful. Thank you so much for sharing.
Some of you may think: "Gosh, that was long and repetitive and she really just kept beating that 'day after day' drum a lot".
Yes. Yes I did.
Melody, do I have your permission to reprint your note in its entirety for a piece I'm writing?
Yes, Michael, you do.
Sorry, that should have read "may I have your permission".
You may :)
Godspeed to you, Michael: https://tempo.substack.com/p/funny
This was great - thanks for sharing!
I'm seeing a fair amount of pundits pushing the narrative that Tony and the MSG rally have harmed trump's election chances, so if MAGA is unsuccessful in their attempt to steal the election, assuming by all that is good in the world they don't win outright and this narrative somehow seeps into their godawful information bubble, I don't imagine Tony coming out of this as a hero.
Rogan is a cuck. He's not funny, never was. And at least in his broniverse ( excellent word, by the way) we know where they are.
Nice essay! My husband and I love vinyl and have started seeking out old comedy records. So fun. Cheech and Chong are a blast. Carlin is the best so far---but we are still discovering. We're hoping to come across some old Redd Foxx because I hear the party albums are irreverent and raunchy and great. It is fine for comedy to evolve though. I cringe at the jokes I used to tell as a teen in the 80s (lots of gay/Aids jokes, some n-word punchlines, misogyny--because I used to be unbothered about degrading other women). I still love to laugh and am fortunate to have a hilarious husband, but I am relieved that I am a more aware (proudly woke) person now.
Wait until you listen to the album by Bill Cosby where he talks about Spanish Fly. In retrospect it's really chilling to hear him admitting to drugging women to get sex like it's H-I-larious.
You’re better and funnier than every ahole you name dropped in this article. Thanks for speaking up.
"What I have, instead, is a clear conscience about how I practice my craft" that and the fact that you have empathy is part of what makes me look forward to reading your work.
Thank you MIB.
I always go back to the Eddie Izzard Dress to Kill special joke about ORIGINAL sin, creating your own fucked up weirdness instead of relying on someone else’s old faithfuls (Eddie ov corpse not being a hate-filled arse).
I share strongly share these sentiments and while I don't listen to Rogan's show or Tony's, I've always understood when comic is clearly part of the Broniverse. I'm happy to say that their thing isn't my thing. As a comedian, as a writer or creator - wouldn't you want to be better?